Author Topic: GameSX: Elitist Bastards?  (Read 4622 times)

Offline Lawrence

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« on: February 24, 2006, 08:01:03 am »
Recently, a user on these forums said "im really starting to hate these forums. Everyone is such an elitist and holds themself on such a high pedestal"

I'd like to start off by saying that I really don't think this forum is full of elitists.

That's all I have to say, really.  I invite your opinions on the matter.

I'm going to get on my high pedestal now and say that I think the world is shifting, perhaps precipitously so, towards a culture where the educated are demonized for being smart by those who aren't.

Have you ever tried to correct an American's spelling?  Eight times out of ten they freak out about how you think you're so smart and you think you're better than me.  Well, yeah, when it comes to knowing the difference between you're, your and yore I think I am better than you.

But let's look at it from my point of view.  Here's a kid who can't spell (or an adult, likely as not), and I'm helping him, showing him where he's wrong, so that he can perhaps better himself a tiny bit and stop looking like a moron to the whole world who's figured out this fourth-grade concept.  And I'm being attacked for it!

Being wrong is not a problem.  Refusing to learn IS, and I'm sick of it.  Don't get mad at me because you're ignorant and I dared correct you.  I'm the good guy, I'm not calling you names or mocking your lack of education, I'm giving you free tools to help you stop doing what you're doing.

If you don't care, fine, but for fuck's sake don't get pissed off at me because I do care!  It's not elitist!  There's a requirement for 'elitist' where I'd really have to denigrate you in some way, and that simply doesn't happen.  

Well, sometimes it does, but you probably deserved it.

 

Offline atom

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2006, 08:19:19 am »
Lawrence, im going to start off by saying that the people on this site who usually have the sort of attitude I speak of usually truly are the people that are the best plethora of information. Here are the two things that bug me:

New user comes to the forums and is excited about this new site for console modding. Sure, they don't know much about it but thought they could check out the message boards and ask a few questions.
USER A replies with 2 words. He says something like "Hell no." or "Won't work."
USER B then says "Im sick of answering this question",and then they fail to answer it
USER C finally then comes in and sees what is going on and gently informs the original poster the problems with his mod idea and helps him find an alternative or a document to educate him with the subject.
That sucks. Thank god for the occasional USER C.

Experienced User A who thinks they are a pretty good source of information (and they are) replies to a topic that has sparked something interesting. I also have noticed this usually happens once a post has gone way off the original subject. USER A tries to show everybody the truth on the subject and makes his post. USER B then replies and tells him how wrong he is and tells him about the "facts." USERS A and B are usually saying the same thing anyways but nonetheless things often get nasty. Its fine to debate about a topic, but it often turns into picking apart everyones each and every word. Hate to sound like a forum addict but this is called trolling. Where you start arguing just for the sake of arguing and annoying the other party.

I realize this came across as a personal attack against you Lawrence. But its just abot 2/3 of our regular users. And yeah, I certainly agree with you with the English. The culture here is fast paced and nobody wants to type out a message the correct way. Their are roughly 820 registerd users to these forums. Probably about 13 members are active. I went inactive for quite a while myself.  Id bet close to 90% of these users have less then 5 posts. Their must be a reason why, right?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 08:22:41 am by atom »
forgive my broked english, for I am an AMERICAN

Offline FM-77

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2006, 08:22:18 am »
I know exactly what you're talking about, but I don't agree. I think the forum regulars here are extremely friendly and helpful. I don't think anyone's arrogant here either. This, however -- is very common on other message boards.

I am a fast learner, and I sure owe this site a lot for everything I know about console modding. I will stay here for a long time -- for learning, and for teaching others.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 08:23:26 am by Seldane »

Offline kendrick

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2006, 10:28:04 am »
Two things to say. Americans are an odd lot, and I can get away with that generalization because I am one. We value egalitarian treatment of each other, where all people are given equal consideration. At the same time, we demand that every personal achievement and self distinction be endlessly praised and trumpeted across the hills. Thus we have the bizarre contradiction upon which American culture is founded: "You're no better than I am, but aren't I cool?" is a good way to sum it up.

The other thing is that I don't believe GameSX board members are elitist in any way, at least not by the dictionary definition. We do not stand to gain by withholding knowledge, nor do we seek to prevent it from being gained by anybody who has an interest in it. The knowledge sharing in the wiki, Lawrence's endless articles and photographs, and the board itself are all evidence that elitism is not in effect in any way. However, we may lack patience, and we certainly have a very high expectation of prerequisite knowledge. It's the expression of this latter quality that appears as elitism.

I don't care what you know or don't know. I don't mind if you ask questions. I do mind if you can't seem to be bothered to gain skills and experience on your own. The kind of game console modification we do around here is complex and disorganized, but you can do it too if you're willing to make mistakes, break things along the way and experiment. This crap doesn't come in a cardboard box kit with a Martha Stewart seal and a bilingual instruction sheet.

Put simply, anybody can do this. Nobody will do it for you.

-KKC, who lost the first version of this post in an accidental deletion and thinks this second version is more preachy and less eloquent. Dammit.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 10:29:21 am by kendrick »

Offline atom

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2006, 10:54:25 am »
Yes, you put it quite well kendrick.
forgive my broked english, for I am an AMERICAN

Offline Lawrence

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2006, 01:42:04 pm »
atom said:
Quote
And yeah, I certainly agree with you with the English.
And then you went on to use the wrong "there" twice.  How terrible is that?  ;)

atom said:
Quote
Their are roughly 820 registerd users to these forums. Probably about 13 members are active. Id bet close to 90% of these users have less then 5 posts. Their must be a reason why, right?
My guess is that people come looking for an answer, get it, and leave.

Kendrick said:
Quote
I don't care what you know or don't know. I don't mind if you ask questions. I do mind if you can't seem to be bothered to gain skills and experience on your own. The kind of game console modification we do around here is complex and disorganized, but you can do it too if you're willing to make mistakes, break things along the way and experiment. This crap doesn't come in a cardboard box kit with a Martha Stewart seal and a bilingual instruction sheet.

Put simply, anybody can do this. Nobody will do it for you.
Bravo.  That's our new official mantra.  

Offline atom

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2006, 02:29:38 pm »
Quote
And then you went on to use the wrong "there" twice. How terrible is that?

And so you couldn't read it? Shame shame.  :P  
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 02:29:51 pm by atom »
forgive my broked english, for I am an AMERICAN

Offline Lawrence

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2006, 04:00:44 pm »
Quote
And so you couldn't read it?
Oh, I swear the next person who pulls that shit on me is gonna get an elitist kick up the backside.  

Offline acem77

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2006, 03:03:05 am »
So................................................................................................................................
..............
is...............a



































Sega Saturn  480i component video cable possible?   :P




i have been here a long time now. i can see how my knowledge has grown from knowing nothing to knowing next to nothing and that has even helped me out a lot.
so far i have 13 fully working rgb modded systems...leaving the last and the hardest mod(for me)...the rgb 3do :o
the knowledge i gained on this site helped me figure out how to rgb mod a CDI ....(yes i am the only man that cared enough about my CDI lol)
i knew what chips to look for then got the data sheets then i knew what to do with the info.

i have to thank the people of this web site. with out any of their help and knowledge i would not have had gotten this far.

but back to what people say when people give feed back.i feel i am smart enough to take what i need and run with it. you have to know what to filter out and what to save.
if i feel some one is wrong i dont try too hard to correct them. you could easily waste the rest of your life on stupid people.
to save head aches its a good thing to judge if some will gain from your knowledge or if you are just wasting your time and breath.



p.s.
i cant spell but i know and that solves half the problem.
still hopeless...





















 

Offline Aidan

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2006, 07:44:48 pm »
Quote
Sega Saturn  480i component video cable possible?
Yes, technically it is *possible* with a bunch of electronics. However, the question you have to ask is "Is a Saturn 480i component video cable possible within a sensible budget and a relatively simple set of components?". To which the answer is "No" of course.

Ignoring grammar and spelling issues for the moment, there are a certain class of user who simply want someone to do the work for them, so that they can take the credit for it. Now, I do not necessarily think that they realise the implications of what they are asking. There are many people who appear to expect mods to be "consumer" grade, in that you can pick it off the shelf and just have it work.

I also think that there are a good number of users who do not have the technical knowledge to be aware that what they are attempting to do is not as simple as they think it is. As has been said before "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Elitest is one thing - doing someone's work for them is another thing. The dividing line between them can get worn when the same questions are posed time after time.

Am I elitest?  The answer to that question is regrettably "yes, sometimes".  
[ Not an authoritive source of information. ]

LuxKiller65

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2006, 07:10:50 pm »
Quote
Don't get mad at me because you're ignorant
What? Ain't you ignorant too? I thought we all were... It's not a matter of you being more intelligent than others, it's just a matter of you being less ignorant than others.

And if you're tired of people shouting at you when you point out a spelling mistake... just don't point it out!

 :blink:

Otherwise, nobody's perfect, if somebody doesn't like this forum, off he goes... right?

Have a nice day (and do point out when a "new" N64 game has damage on the box... you made me spend 35 EUR for nothing!)

 ;)  

Offline Lawrence

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2006, 07:59:50 pm »
Quote
What? Ain't you ignorant too?
Of course I am, but this is my point: I'm not getting pissed off at people who know more than me, and I expect the same from everyone else.

Quote
And if you're tired of people shouting at you when you point out a spelling mistake... just don't point it out!

This is so backwards.  

Quote
and do point out when a "new" N64 game has damage on the box... you made me spend 35 EUR for nothing!
This is not the place for dirty laundry.  In my defense, I never said it was 'mint condition', I said it was new, which it was.  I also offered you a refund, which I assume you refused 'cause you never got back to me about it.

Offline Peyn

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2006, 04:46:34 pm »
Quote
Recently, a user on these forums said "im really starting to hate these forums. Everyone is such an elitist and holds themself on such a high pedestal"

I'd like to start off by saying that I really don't think this forum is full of elitists.

That's all I have to say, really.  I invite your opinions on the matter.

I'm going to get on my high pedestal now and say that I think the world is shifting, perhaps precipitously so, towards a culture where the educated are demonized for being smart by those who aren't.

Have you ever tried to correct an American's spelling?  Eight times out of ten they freak out about how you think you're so smart and you think you're better than me.  Well, yeah, when it comes to knowing the difference between you're, your and yore I think I am better than you.

But let's look at it from my point of view.  Here's a kid who can't spell (or an adult, likely as not), and I'm helping him, showing him where he's wrong, so that he can perhaps better himself a tiny bit and stop looking like a moron to the whole world who's figured out this fourth-grade concept.  And I'm being attacked for it!

Being wrong is not a problem.  Refusing to learn IS, and I'm sick of it.  Don't get mad at me because you're ignorant and I dared correct you.  I'm the good guy, I'm not calling you names or mocking your lack of education, I'm giving you free tools to help you stop doing what you're doing.

If you don't care, fine, but for fuck's sake don't get pissed off at me because I do care!  It's not elitist!  There's a requirement for 'elitist' where I'd really have to denigrate you in some way, and that simply doesn't happen.  

Well, sometimes it does, but you probably deserved it.
Wow, those are the last things I'd expect to hear from anyone at these forums. I've always thought of everyone here as mature and respectable.

Offline Lawrence

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2006, 05:05:35 pm »
Quote
I've always thought of everyone here as mature and respectable.
Haha, boy did we have you fooled.

Offline sammyleekilljob

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 09:36:27 am »
i'm with the spellchecker, blame the national curriculum not slightly pedantic websters, this attitude reflects a general real drop in standards across the board, manners and empaty are at an all time low, i recently split from a 12month relationship because the girl refused to say please or thank you for a cup of tea! that showed her (i'm great in bed), (sorry, more dirty laundry), :huh:  (but thats diff'r'nt story)

Offline atom

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2006, 11:01:43 am »
Ok, I'm up and running here in Pittsburgh and I think we can trash this thread now. Apparently I was reading into things too much and everyone pretty much disagrees with me so I officially apologize to Lawrence and everyone else. Happy St. Patty's day.
forgive my broked english, for I am an AMERICAN

Offline kendrick

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2006, 11:59:25 pm »
Atom, I don't think there's any kind of outright refutation of your points. It's a complex issue, and I don't mean to state that as a generalization. When one looks to become part of any kind of social organization (even one as anarchic and disorganized as a web forum) that person has to learn the rules and figure out what is and is not acceptable behavior. Usually, what you've pegged as elitism is a reaction to posts where somebody is asking a question without making an attempt to figure out the rules of our society.

There's an argument to be made that we're not reacting to a lack of knowledge so much as we are a lack of propriety. It's okay for somebody to ask a dumb question, but only after they've read the FAQ documents and done the usual searches and read through previous posts. What we demand in our organization is a level of informed ignorance, and somebody who can't be bothered to lift themselves off of the ground floor isn't considered a part of our organization. We don't have a formal initiation ceremony or anything, but there is a fuzzy line between members and non-members.

BTW, you ought to really enjoy Pittsburgh if you've never lived there before. Good food, decent infrastructure, excellent public services. Watch out for the triangle-shaped city blocks though, a result of the funny shape of the three rivers coming together. If you miss your left turn, you can't just take the next left and double back.

-KKC, who misses living in a big city with ethnic diversity and signs of civilization.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2006, 12:00:40 am by kendrick »

Offline Lawrence

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2006, 07:58:43 am »
Wow, kendrick, that was pretty well said.  Been giving it a lot of thought, have you?  =)

Offline atom

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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2006, 08:24:11 am »
Quote
If you miss your left turn, you can't just take the next left and double back.

Boy oh boy have I learned that. The other day I took an exit that lead to another exit which eventually brought me about a thousand feet away from the original exit.  This place is amazing to me Ive always lived in a small town. Theres billboards here that are giant lcd screens and I can't help but smile every time I come out of the Fort Pitt Tunell and see the skyscrapers :)

One problem I was having is that I am from the Buffalo area and I couldn't find any place to get good chicken wings. I found a place yesterday called 'Wings Suds and Spuds'. Mmmmmm chicken wings...
forgive my broked english, for I am an AMERICAN

Offline kendrick

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2006, 09:36:34 am »
Lawrence, I really haven't given it a lot of thought, to be honest. :) I'm something of an amateur anthropologist, and it's interesting to me how there are only a few base motives for human behavior. We react to something by running from it, eating it, or mating with it. You can pretty much extrapolate the whole of human behavior from those three things.

Atom, I don't remember any good chicken places, but you should check out the Original Hot Dog Shop (or "The 'O'" as they call it) right there on Forbes street between where the University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon meet. They're famous for the dollar-basket of french fries as big as your head, and when school's in session all the hot chicks hang out there. At least, they did ten years ago. :/

-KKC, who misses da burgh.

Offline Lawrence

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GameSX: Elitist Bastards?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2006, 12:59:23 pm »
Kendrick, your idea of 'run/eat/mate' describes the hypothalamus pretty accurately.  Fight, fuck or flee.  

There are other behaviours though that I think can be boiled down to, essentially, good or bad.  The brain can be tricked into thinking that a lot of behaviours are good for survival of the organism (ie: us).  That is, I think, how we manage to work as a team.  There's some concept of 'what works best for the group is best for me'.  That's what makes it easier for some people to work as a group, 'cause they have that connection, where antisocial types have a lesser developed sense of reward from social interactions.

Just my personal theory.  =)