Author Topic: NES RGB mod (Read 125130 times)

acem77 · « **Reply #80 on:** June 26, 2008, 12:45:36 pm »

Listed below are Things I can tell are different between the two nintendos

The biggest differences I found are the use of 74LSXXX and 74HCXXX ICs
And the missing 4Mhz CIC. Not really sure what the part is called? Ceramic Resonator?
I am leaning toward the 74XXXXX ICs.

The NES that does not work with the powerpak when rgb modded.
nes-cpu-04
SN# N1394910

Different part numbers
U3 HD74LS139P
U2 HD74LS373P

this system is also missing a few components.
C11 .01u Ceramic Cap (near the blue power connector)
C12 .01u Ceramic Cap (near the blue power connector)
4Mhz Out CIC (circuitry/lockout chip clock line). runs to pin 71 on the cart. It has 2 empty holes. (near the 3193a lockout chip)

Any other newer nes-cpu-07 Nintendos I looked at have a 3pin(one pin to gnd) light blue 4Mhz cic on them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The NES that does work with the powerpak when rgb modded.
nes-cpu-04
SN# N1284385

Different part numbers
U3 TC74HC139P
U2 TC74HC373P
This nes 4Mhz looks like a Ceramic Resonator. It is red/orange in color.
I would guess it uses 2 pins. I mailed the nintendo back and can not verify that any more.
but the v4 nes I have now only has 2 holes on the pc
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a difference between the power/RF/AV daughter board.
There are only 5 pins going to that. 2 for power, 1 gnd, 1 composite video and 1 mono audio.
I have a hard time believing that will effect the ppu or the powerpaks graphic abilities.

Both nintendos have 74LSXXX silk screened on the pcb by U2 and U3.
The working nes uses 74HCXXX ICs even though the silk screen calls for the the other 74LSXXX.

while looking for info on 74 ICs I found this on a site.
The 74LS (Low-power Schottky) family (like the original) uses TTL (Transistor-Transistor Logic) circuitry which is fast but requires more power than later families. The 74 series is often still called the 'TTL series' even though the latest ICs do not use TTL!

The 74HC family has High-speed CMOS circuitry, combining the speed of TTL with the very low power consumption of the 4000 series. They are CMOS ICs with the same pin arrangements as the older 74LS family. Note that 74HC inputs cannot be reliably driven by 74LS outputs because the voltage ranges used for logic 0 are not quite compatible, use 74HCT instead.

It sounds like the all nintendos really should only use 74LSXXX ICs. But I have saw one with 74LSXXX ICs.

Does any one have any feed back on this. Expecially the 4Mhz part and 74XXXXX ICs.

ニユ－マン · « **Reply #81 on:** June 27, 2008, 07:03:56 am »

Is it safe to user the RGB PPUs without an heatsink

Nintendo used to be so cheap... Why would they install one if it wasn't needed?

Quote

I am leaning toward the 74XXXXX ICs.

My bet is on the '373

acem77 · « **Reply #82 on:** June 27, 2008, 07:28:26 am »

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?FS=TRUE&Ntt=*TC74HC373P*&N=1323038&Ntx=mode%2bmatchall&Ns=P_SField&OriginalKeyword=TC74HC373P+&Ntk=Mouser_Wildcards

I wounder if any of these are good replacments for the TC74HC373P.
I would like to find the original part.

kyuusaku · « **Reply #83 on:** June 27, 2008, 03:46:23 pm »

It doesn't matter which brand, they're all the same. BTW, my Famicom has 74LS parts and it works fine with the PowerPak. Besides, the PowerPak should be able to be driven by either logic family, so perhaps just that specific batch of 74LS can't pull down the PowerPak's pullups.

acem77 · « **Reply #84 on:** June 28, 2008, 02:09:49 am »

Is there a chance you could post a high rez picture of your famicom PCB or email me it?
if not what is the full part number of the 74 ICs on your famicom.

tsenzen

if you are still checking this post could you do the same thanks.

Thanks

acem77 · « **Reply #85 on:** June 30, 2008, 02:14:01 am »

Success!!!!

I found the fix at least for the v4 nes pcb. I bought a Toshiba 74HC373AP at a local electronics supply store and replaced the 74LS373P.
The powerpak started to work after a few tries. it seems to be a little touchy. I do have every thing in pieces now so that could be the problem.
I will have to look in to it a bit more but I feel for the most part the problems is solved.
next I will replace the same chip in my v7 nes pcb and see if this is a universal fix.

LEGENDARYACTS · « **Reply #86 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:26:01 am »

Ace, I've stumbled upon your work and I'm very impressed. For the longest time, I have wanted to figure out to do the type of mod that you have successfully done. I also would be very interested in your services and would love for you to help me achieve a special project that I have in mind. Please let me know if it would be of any interest to you. -Legendaryacts Legendaryacts@hotmail.com

acem77 · « **Reply #87 on:** June 30, 2008, 02:49:22 pm »

New update I have added a 74HC373 to my ver 7 NES and it works great with the powerpak.
everything seems to work great. Most of my problems seem to have been from bad connections.
at this point I would say this is a universal fix for any front loading NES with a RGB mod to enable powerpak compatibility

I tried a duo ppu mod Rgb/composite+RF.
For the most part I piggy backed both PPUs then I select the ppu I want by supplying it with 5V from a switch.
I was also going to use a rgb led for the power led. If I am in rgb mode it will light up blue and red for composite video mode.
I Had everything working but it added more vertical lines/noise.
I went back just used the RGB PPU to minimize the vertical lines.

A funny /dangerous /stupid thing I did was piggy back both with PPUs to see what would happen.
I got no video but the sound would still play but it was playing very fast.

After playing around I noticed older v4 NES systems have more vertical line noise in the image than the ver 7 NES.
this is something to consider when RGB modding a NES.
Games run from the powerpak display vertical lines more intensely.

acem77 · « **Reply #88 on:** February 12, 2009, 04:05:08 am »

RP2C05 ppu sharp twin famicom rgb

will these work with each other?

RC2C05-01
Ninja Jajamaru Kun (Japan)
RC2C05-02
Mighty Bomb Jack (Japan)
RC2C05-03
Gumshoe
RPC05-04
Top Gun

Moosmann · « **Reply #89 on:** February 15, 2009, 09:45:54 pm »

Quote

RP2C05 ppu sharp twin famicom rgb

What do you mean ?

Quote

will these work with each other?

RC2C05-01
Ninja Jajamaru Kun (Japan)
RC2C05-02
Mighty Bomb Jack (Japan)
RC2C05-03
Gumshoe
RPC05-04
Top Gun

It doesn`t work (afaik and afair). The #5 PPUs have the same NES Colors, but a Rom-Check/Protection except the -99 PPu from Titler.

Greetings Markus

Gamester · « **Reply #90 on:** March 21, 2009, 06:35:56 am »

Hey guys,

New here

I got a few questions about this mod that I am not sure on.

1: When using the chip off of the PlayerChoice 10, which capacitor is used to clean up the signal? Is it the 68uf or the 120uf? Also, does this capacitor need to be polarized or non-polarized?

2: Once the chip from the PlayerChoice 10 is in the NES, does it need a heatsink or not?

Thanks,
Gamester

Gamester · « **Reply #91 on:** March 22, 2009, 02:35:26 am »

Does anyone know the answer to these questions?

Perhaps Moosmann is still around?

I would like to know soon so I can place my Digikey order.

Thanks,
Gamester

Moosmann · « **Reply #92 on:** March 23, 2009, 06:40:58 am »

I`m not every day here, sorry for the late reply.

You need ceramic capacitors (without polarity). Try 68pf, when you still get some problems with graphics, take 120pf. It doesn`t matter with or without heatsinks.

Greetings Markus

Gamester · « **Reply #93 on:** March 23, 2009, 09:11:44 am »

Ok, cool, thanks for that info!

So, are all Ceramic Capacitors non-polar then? Just wondering as non-polar is not a feature selection for ceramic capacitors at Digikey.

Thanks again,
Gamester

kendrick · « **Reply #94 on:** March 23, 2009, 10:18:15 am »

In general, ceramic capacitors are not polarized, whereas electrolytic and tantalum ones are mostly polarized. There are always exceptions, but you're looking at fewer than one percent of the available components.

Gamester · « **Reply #95 on:** March 23, 2009, 12:06:34 pm »

Awesome, thanks guys!

Thanks again,
Gamester

Gamester · « **Reply #96 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:28:57 am »

One other thing comes to mind. When soldering on the IC socket, how can you be sure that the solder is getting to the upper part of the pin? What I mean is since the IC socket sets flat against the pcb, I can't really visually tell if the solder got to the upper part of the pin or not.

There are traces for the top and bottom of a pin hole that go to separate locations isn't there, or is there not?

Is this even important for this mod? I assume it is, but not sure.

Thanks,
Gamester

Gamester · « **Reply #97 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:08:26 am »

Surely someone here can verify this question? I tried to explain it as good as possible...

acem77 · « **Reply #98 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:49:24 am »

Quote from: Gamester on March 25, 2009, 03:28:57 am

One other thing comes to mind. When soldering on the IC socket, how can you be sure that the solder is getting to the upper part of the pin? What I mean is since the IC socket sets flat against the pcb, I can't really visually tell if the solder got to the upper part of the pin or not.

There are traces for the top and bottom of a pin hole that go to separate locations isn't there, or is there not?

Is this even important for this mod? I assume it is, but not sure.

Thanks,
Gamester

Dont worry about it the hole is lined from top to bottom.
just solder the bottom the best you can.
I have done a lot rgb mods never had a problem.

Gamester · « **Reply #99 on:** March 26, 2009, 11:01:27 am »

Awesome, I never knew that.

Thanks a bunch for all of the help guys!

I will be attempting this project as soon as all of my stuff I ordered comes in

Thanks again,
Gamester

Jon8RFC · « **Reply #100 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:03:54 pm »

I just read this concerning the color output...

Quote

Just thought I'd mention a few things, mainly concerning the "inverted colors" on the PC10 boards, and the "inverting of the color emphasis bits". If the colors appear inverted on your PC10 board, it's because most of the old Nintendo arcade boards have a video amplifier that sends an inverted signal to a monitor that accepts inverted signals. But the PPU itself does not produce these inverted colors. I found a simple way to modify vs. boards to have non-inverted output, simply by adding 6 resistors (3 if you only intend to use it for a single monitor); I haven't tried this mod on a PC10 board, but I'd imagine it can be modded the same way.
Now about the color emphasis bits - what they do on the RGB PPUs is they force the red, green, and/or blue channels to full brightness, affecting every color. The composite PPUs on the other hand add a weak red, green, and/or blue color to the screen and darken the luminance values of certain colors - except for colors xE and xF (these are unaffected). I've heard that some games use all 3 emphasis bits. While this simply darkens the picture on the composite PPU, it unfortunately makes the screen on an RGB PPU go solid white - not a good thing. This, along with some bad colors, especially 0B and 3B, are reasons why some people frown at the RGB PPU, but for most games I think it looks great.

http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7546

Moosmann · « **Reply #101 on:** May 03, 2009, 12:31:24 am »

I got the Info, that add some 3,3K resistors (parallel to the RGB-Pins - before the signal go into the amplifier) to get a more accurate NES palette. I test this some weeks ago very shortly, but I still have to test it with much more games and with my own amplifier circuit.

The other method is to use an action replay. This makes some non rgb compatible games working (e.g. Bubble Bobble wrongred background to black).

If I have check them all and the additional resistors don´t damage the PPU, I update my page.

Greetings Markus

Jibbajaba · « **Reply #102 on:** May 07, 2009, 05:26:08 pm »

Quote from: Moosmann on May 03, 2009, 12:31:24 am

I got the Info, that add some 3,3K resistors (parallel to the RGB-Pins - before the signal go into the amplifier) to get a more accurate NES palette. I test this some weeks ago very shortly, but I still have to test it with much more games and with my own amplifier circuit.

The other method is to use an action replay. This makes some non rgb compatible games working (e.g. Bubble Bobble wrongred background to black).

If I have check them all and the additional resistors don´t damage the PPU, I update my page.

Greetings Markus

Hey MoosMann, any update on this? I just got my Vs. Duck Hunt ppu in the mail this morning, so I'm getting ready to do the mod.

Thanks,

Chris

tsenzen · « **Reply #103 on:** May 31, 2009, 11:40:38 am »

I ran this through a jamma adapter to run on my arcade monitor (works fine)..

However, im able to power the famicom without plugging in the AC? so when i disconnect the av, its like power off, and when i reconnect the av it turns the system on?

should i disconnect the 5+ cable from the wiring? or is this just a symptom of the jamma fingerboard?

Jibbajaba · « **Reply #104 on:** June 06, 2009, 05:54:48 pm »

Just finished the mod. I had the same problem as Bostitch, with the blurry picture. I also had to flip all of my transistors around, as I was using NTE brand components. The order of the legs on those is opposite of what Moosman uses, so for anyone else doing this mod, make sure you have the transistors situated properly.

This was easily the most challenging electronics project I have ever worked on. I can't even guess how many hours I sent soldering, desoldering, and troubleshooting and how much money I wasted re-buying components. I got really frustrated a lot, and stayed up past my bedtime several times to "finish it up" only to go to bed frustrated because it still wasn't working. Today I worked on it literally all day from about 11AM until sometime around midnight, and finally got everything working and properly put back together after about 3 weeks of working on it on and off. I can say without hesitation that it was easily all worth it. The comparison pictures I have seen online do not even come close to doing it justice. The NES has a beautiful RGB picture; just as good as any other console. The colors being "off" don't bother me at all because now the games match the back of the box, screenshots in the official NES players guide, etc. The colors don;t seen off to me, but seem correct now.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it provides inspiration to anyone else who is either on the fence about this, or is getting frustrated mid-mod.

Thanks a lot Moosman,

Chris

primeform · « **Reply #105 on:** April 18, 2010, 01:38:32 pm »

I would really like to have this mod done to my NES. I know its way over my head. Maybe someone would be willing to do it for some financial compensation?

Jibbajaba · « **Reply #106 on:** May 06, 2010, 03:05:40 pm »

Has anyone tried using the NJM2267 amp in their NES yet? I'm wondering if it will help with the jail bars. I just built the amp on a bread board tonight to use with my TG16 and it looks awesome, so I was thinking about replacing the Moosman amp that I have in my NES (no offense, Moos.)

Chris

RGB32E · « **Reply #107 on:** May 07, 2010, 02:49:48 am »

Quote from: Jibbajaba on May 06, 2010, 03:05:40 pm

Has anyone tried using the NJM2267 amp in their NES yet? I'm wondering if it will help with the jail bars. I just built the amp on a bread board tonight to use with my TG16 and it looks awesome, so I was thinking about replacing the Moosman amp that I have in my NES (no offense, Moos.)

Chris

I'm the one who posted that info around here. Yes, you can use the very same amp on the NES RGB mod. You can also use the circuit for CSYNC too (both TG and NES). I have found that running CSYNC through the NJM (for both systems) improves compatiblity with my XRGB-3. Also, for both systems, putting 1000 to 1200 pF caps on the outputs to ground reduces JBs (caps work as a first order LPF). I haven't found a way to completely eliminate the problem. JBs are also present in the arcade (I have seen VS and PC10 cabs recently and they do this too). Enjoy!

Hamburglar · « **Reply #108 on:** August 10, 2010, 12:33:29 pm »

Just finished the mod, the most annoying problems with the RGB PPU palette are when skin colors are off, overall the picture quality improvement is well worth it, I noticed anything by Konami looks amazing.

I greatly reduced jailbars by tapping sync off of the PPU to a LM1881 instead of using the amplified output on the NES. I am however using a CRT, when using my X-RGB2 with an LCD they are stil pretty visible.

Has anyone attempted to order the RGB amp/CXA1645 kits from http://homepage3.nifty.com/F-LABO? I wonder if they ship out of the country. I clicked the order link, but XP/Firefox can't display the page properly...so I can't run it through babelfish

I'm going to do my re-designed Famicom next and would like it use their CXA1645 kit rather than wiring the whole thing up with a breadboard.

Moosmann · « **Reply #109 on:** August 10, 2010, 07:32:04 pm »

Quote

I haven't found a way to completely eliminate the problem.

This isn`t a problem with the amplifiers, it is a problem from the games. An example: Compare the JB (completly right) between Title screen and Start/Password Screen from Castlevania 2. Or compare Chip`n Dale 2, so that you can understand what i mean.

Greetings Markus

RGB32E · « **Reply #110 on:** August 14, 2010, 01:32:23 am »

Quote from: Moosmann on August 10, 2010, 07:32:04 pm

Quote
I haven't found a way to completely eliminate the problem.

This isn`t a problem with the amplifiers, it is a problem from the games. An example: Compare the JB (completly right) between Title screen and Start/Password Screen from Castlevania 2. Or compare Chip`n Dale 2, so that you can understand what i mean.

Greetings Markus

Yeah, some games have more JBs than others... though I still intend to determine as to WHY!

acem77 · « **Reply #111 on:** August 14, 2010, 02:56:34 am »

JBs look more defined with some colors more than others.
Also different NES revs have less defined JBs.
Same with the SNES, my launch SNES has mild JBs, a later rev I modded for some one
Did not have any.

Duo ppus in the NES will increase the JBs, tried this to have an all in one system, not worth the JBs increase
to keep composite video...

RGB32E · « **Reply #112 on:** August 14, 2010, 07:42:20 am »

Quote from: acem77 on August 14, 2010, 02:56:34 am

JBs look more defined with some colors more than others.
Also different NES revs have less defined JBs.
Same with the SNES, my launch SNES has mild JBs, a later rev I modded for some one
Did not have any.

Duo ppus in the NES will increase the JBs, tried this to have an all in one system, not worth the JBs increase
to keep composite video...

Did you just GTranslate your post through several different languages before posting?

acem77 · « **Reply #113 on:** August 14, 2010, 08:02:31 am »

I wish i could say yes....

Quote from: RGB32E on August 14, 2010, 07:42:20 am

Quote from: acem77 on August 14, 2010, 02:56:34 am
JBs look more defined with some colors more than others.
Also different NES revs have less defined JBs.
Same with the SNES, my launch SNES has mild JBs, a later rev I modded for some one
Did not have any.

Duo ppus in the NES will increase the JBs, tried this to have an all in one system, not worth the JBs increase
to keep composite video...

Did you just GTranslate your post through several different languages before posting?

xenomus · « **Reply #114 on:** August 17, 2010, 02:47:58 pm »

Quote from: Hamburglar on August 10, 2010, 12:33:29 pm

Has anyone attempted to order the RGB amp/CXA1645 kits from http://homepage3.nifty.com/F-LABO? I wonder if they ship out of the country. I clicked the order link, but XP/Firefox can't display the page properly...so I can't run it through babelfish I'm going to do my re-designed Famicom next and would like it use their CXA1645 kit rather than wiring the whole thing up with a breadboard.

In response to your question, I used a shipping proxy based in Japan called http://www.sutocorp.com. I linked the specific order form link (http://homepage3.nifty.com/F-LABO/OrderForm.html) and specified which item I wanted (New Famicom RGB remodeling kit) and just to make sure, I left a note in the order pointing out which item I wanted on the product list page (http://homepage3.nifty.com/F-LABO/ProductsList.html).

It worked perfectly for me. You pay a 3000 yen deposit then pay the rest of the cost of the item + shipping once they receive it. No problems whatsoever. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to test the kit out between moving, work, trying to go back to school, etc. I have assembled the amp/components and obtained the proper PPU, but have yet to get my hands on a Famicom AV.

Anyways, I hope this info helps.

Hamburglar · « **Reply #115 on:** August 30, 2010, 01:20:21 pm »

Thanks, I will definately give that a try next time I do another AV Famicom, I just went ahead and wired up a CXA1645 to a blank pcb, not difficult but time consuming.

Quote from: xenomus on August 17, 2010, 02:47:58 pm

Quote from: Hamburglar on August 10, 2010, 12:33:29 pm
Has anyone attempted to order the RGB amp/CXA1645 kits from http://homepage3.nifty.com/F-LABO? I wonder if they ship out of the country. I clicked the order link, but XP/Firefox can't display the page properly...so I can't run it through babelfish I'm going to do my re-designed Famicom next and would like it use their CXA1645 kit rather than wiring the whole thing up with a breadboard.

In response to your question, I used a shipping proxy based in Japan called http://www.sutocorp.com. I linked the specific order form link (http://homepage3.nifty.com/F-LABO/OrderForm.html) and specified which item I wanted (New Famicom RGB remodeling kit) and just to make sure, I left a note in the order pointing out which item I wanted on the product list page (http://homepage3.nifty.com/F-LABO/ProductsList.html).

It worked perfectly for me. You pay a 3000 yen deposit then pay the rest of the cost of the item + shipping once they receive it. No problems whatsoever. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to test the kit out between moving, work, trying to go back to school, etc. I have assembled the amp/components and obtained the proper PPU, but have yet to get my hands on a Famicom AV.

Anyways, I hope this info helps.

Drakon · « **Reply #116 on:** August 31, 2010, 01:36:32 pm »

okay whatever I wired 5v into my encoder psu. I made a mishmash amp for the rgb signals here's the diagram lol

Hamburglar · « **Reply #117 on:** August 31, 2010, 04:02:14 pm »

Quote from: Drakon on August 31, 2010, 01:36:32 pm

okay whatever I wired 5v into my encoder psu. I made a mishmash amp for the intensity in my s-video cable to make the brightness correct here's the diagram lol

Drakon · « **Reply #118 on:** September 06, 2010, 05:11:23 am »

so what's the best solution to remove the jailbars? Aside from that my picture quality is perfect
also what causes the jailbars? Is it something to do with the sync? Or is it the rgb lines? or both?
And is there a particular amp that's better at removing them?

my rig is an arcade rgb to s-video encoder. It works flawlessly with snes (needed 220uf 10v cap on rgb AND sync lines blah), genesis (needs nothing), arcade (needs nothing). But for some reason my rgb modded nes is on jailbar crack. Right now I'm using the pce amp and the amping is awesome but the bars aren't. For some reason my s-video encoder has the same issue with the playchoice ppu as it does with my snes....it needs a 100-220uf 10 v cap on the sync line otherwise it doesn't get sync. I'll try using a lm1881 and if that doesn't work...well.....the njm amp would be better?

my amp is this amp http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/nintendo/n64rgbbooster.htm with a few added parts which is then fed into this amp http://playoffline.wordpress.com/mod/nesrgb/ also with a lot of changed parts. It works amazingly

I'm using a rgb modded us toaster nes (pcb says 1987 not sure which revision that is). Anyway here's some pics of the painful work I've been doing

Here's a couple of pics of the system just after the ppu was finished being wired up

Here's the workbench with my amps all wired up

here's the rest of the workspace (mostly)

hmm....any way of making a high pass filter to get rid of the bars?

xenomus · « **Reply #119 on:** September 21, 2010, 12:32:16 pm »

So, I'm working on my RGB kit for the Famicom AV and I'm getting close! But all I seem to get is pictures like these:

http://imgur.com/hqxwt.jpg
http://imgur.com/hkDzg.jpg
http://imgur.com/UK3CT.jpg

It appears to be pulling sprite information from the wrong addresses, or something like that. It should be noted that I can't get the one actual Famicom game I have to load up. The only games that I can get to load are NES games thru a NES-to-Famicom converter. Sound comes through just fine. It's just the pictures are garbled. At least the colors are crisp and bold thanks to the RGB! But, yeah, this is something of an issue.

And I'm pretty sure it's not the fault of the converter, since I got NES games to play on the system with it just fine before I started the modding. The PPU I'm using is RP2C03B, which I think is compatible but I'm not 100% sure since my Japanese is rusty. (For reference: http://homepage3.nifty.com/F-LABO/ProductsList.html ; third item down.)

Any advice?