NES RGB mod

[akaviolence]

I thought the console was going to turn off on me when testing the cxa2075m, it was acting weird, but the only thing I could blame was power draw of that chip. I was only going to use it for an rgb amp, but since I found the njm2667 and ncs2553 amps were cheaper and drew much less power I didn't use the Sony. I may use it on a different console if I ever want to output svideo, but it's not likely since component is so much better.

I think Salamander is right and the jailbars are just a problem with the ppu itself and everything done to get rid of them has really only been a way to mask or hide them. That's not to say it doesn't work, if I had svid out then i'd mask them if I could as well.

[Europemodder]

Maybe I just make Moosmann amplifier then. I check schematic and it seems to be easy to solder.

Jrok's V4.1 Encoders NTSC price is $81.00 and Shipping and handling to Europe $41.00, so Total is $122.00 USD.
If there is somebody from Europe with available extra Jrok Encoder, please told me, so I dont need to buy it from USA.

[Salamander]

If you're in Europe you have easy access to SCART so you should really be considering RGB over Component.  That being said, for about the same amount of money you could buy one of these...

http://homepage3.nifty.com/F-LABO/ProductsList.html

I use one in my AV Fami and it's an extremely nice kit.

[Europemodder]

Salamander, I like to capture my playing and there is no European SCART on capture card devices, thats why I need component to my Famicom.
How easily this F-LABO is to install? If I order it with Multi AV and use it with Wii Multi AV to Component cable then.

[Salamander]

The hardest thing to do is really desoldering the stock PPU.  If you lift a trace on the AV Fami you could do some serious damage to the board.  The kit itself is very straightforward with the left hand side being responsible for sound and the right for video.  You could just skip the sound portion entirely and cut down the number of components you need to worry about.  If you take your time and have decent soldering skills it should not be difficult at all.

[skips]

Do not know if this will help you or not but it kind of goes with what salamander said about desoldering the PPU being the hardest part. I personally found the easiest and less risky way of doing it was to cut the pins to the stock PPU from the PPU itself. This way you have all the pins sticking out a good distance. I then just used my soldering iron to heat the pins up and was easily able to just pull them from the holes with pliers. Lastly you would just use desoldering braid to clear the holes of solder. This works extremely well if you have no intentions of re-using the old PPU.

[akaviolence]

The full f-labo kit, shown by salamander, is great if you want svid and composite, but using the sony chip especially the 2075 will increase power draw too much for little to no gain. An external rgb to component converter will most likely hide any jailbars and the ncs2553 amp can be made and installed for cheap if you do it yourself. I know its SMD, but really soic-8 is much easier than you think, I have plenty of experience with them of course, but I can easily use a 2mm flat tip and push solder to two legs at a time and never bridge them, the key is a clean board and lots of flux. The njm2667 amp, mooseman as you call it, can be made with all through hole components, and some ppl will sell you a bare pcb designed for the circuit, including me. I've heard the 2667 is not longer available at Mouser, may be the case in other retailers too, but I think the 2668 is basically the same thing and would work fine, but I haven't tried it since I switched to the 2553 with much less components.
As far as PPU removal:
I recently found a super easy way to get DIP chips out.
I use a cheap weller soldering iron with a 2mm chisel tip <- important, trust.
When desoldering I turn it all the way up.
My solder sucker is the cheapest POS you can import on ebay, like $3, you can see it in a bunch of my youtube vids.
Watch this one @ 1:50 minutes, that's exactly how I do all DIP chips.
It's super easy and quite fast and not too hard on the hands and fingers once you get used to it.
Just don't yank 'em out till you're sure the pins move freely, I use the soldering iron to make sure they are free and they usually either move freely right away or 'click' off that last little bit of solder and then are free.
If it still needs coaxing i'll add more solder and try it again.
Watch out for the power and grounded pins, they usually aren't thermal pads and require more heating time to melt the solder, but you'll see it happen or if you have enough force on the iron the pin will move.
Also, you're not likely to encounter lead free solder on any NES stuff but if you do add some leaded to the mix, it will help greatly when working with it!
BTW those power and grounded pins are the reason hot air can ruin a board, it takes too much time to melt them and by that time the board has warped badly and if you're unlucky like me, a whole quarter sized area will lift and possibly explode in to your eye balls! Yeah it happened!
Too bad I wasn't recording at the time, epic 'oh shit' throw stuff and run away reaction!!
And you will start burning and lifting traces etc and you don't want that.
So, to get around that I started sucking the solder out of the pwr and gnd pins before I used the hot air, worked better and faster. But to instal a socket or eprom I had to drill out each pad because using hot air to do it is even harder!

[Europemodder]

If I remove PC10 Chip using heat gun, I got chip nicely removed and PlayChoice motherboard maybe get ruin. But its not problem, because I dont need PlayChoice motherboard anywhere.
Then I cut all original PPU legs off and I can heat the legs off one by one, using Hakko 936 Soldering Station and cheap POS.
I only need to order good chisel tip, never used this tip previously.
There is 1,2mm and 2,4mm tips, but I dont see any 2mm, its better if its too small or big?
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=900m%20chisel%20tip&_sop=15&_clu=2&_fcid=70&_localstpos&_stpos&gbr=1

And I found same POS which you use, so I order this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Antistatic-Desoldering-Pump-Sucker-Solder-Irons-Removal-Remover-Tool-/221052532667?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3377c1f7bb

I ask my local store, if they can found any BC33725 transistor to me.
Mooseman maded good schematic, so I can easily solder BC33725 myself, if they can find one to me.
Can you compare  ncs2553 amp and njm2667. I checked many of your videos, but I understand text better, because Im not learned english so much time.

little offtopic:
I have EasyCap, and I got clear picture on PS1, PS3, Xbox 360 using composite, but when I connect NTSC Famicom, NTSC or PAL NES, I got little  vertical lines on normal and golden RCA cables,
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8186/linesod.png
You guys maybe know why only NES consoles make this lines?
I don't see this lines on my TV, only if I capture NES, but my other consoles doesnt do that.
I try to change Color settings, but brightness, contrast, hue or saturation doesnt remove them.

[Salamander]

@akaviolence - I agree the 2075 is not worth messing with.  The kit comes (came?) with a 1645 which should draw significantly less current.  I thought your comparison video was well done by the way.

Just putting out there that THS7314 is yet another option for an amp.

[akaviolence]

Yeah from what I could tell the ths7314 is almost identical to the 2553, but 3x more expensive.
Maybe it can be found in a DIP package? Mouser has only soic8 of each.

[Europemodder]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TEXAS-INSTRUMENTS-THS7314DG4-AMP-VIDEO-3CH-SDTV-SMD-SOIC8-/260963868229?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3cc2a89e45

Its not very expensive, only £3.95

The njm2667 amp, mooseman as you call it, can be made with all through hole components, and some ppl will sell you a bare pcb designed for the circuit, including me.

Moosmann AMP doesnt use any njm2667 chip, or did I understand something wrong?
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fplayoffline.wordpress.com%2Fmod%2Fnesrgb%2F

If I use ncs2553 chip, is the LM1881 still needed?

[akaviolence]

Sorry, yeah the mooseman is the transistor amp, I was thinking of the 'n64' amp.
All I know is I needed a sync cleaner to get the pc10 to work with the Jrok.
I haven't tested with other encoders, but I don't think different rgb amps with make any difference.

[skips]

I was actually able to test that with the JROC encoder before I blew it akaviolence. Just the 220 uf cap seemed to work, at least on the JROK version I had. Ill have to order another one next week but at least I get the new amp and PPU Tomorrow.

[Live_Steam_Mad]

Hi, I have A/V Famicom with PlayChoise 10 chip and now I like to solder RGB cable to my console. So can you tell me the best cable, which I solder to famicom and cable at the other end would have a scart.

For RGB video cable I just used some cheap PVC covered wire off Ebay made from 7 strands of 0.2mm, tin coated copper. No shielding on any of my video or power or ground wires. I have about 1 metre length coming out of my NES on several wires, for R,G,B, Composite Sync, +5V (for pin 16, via 75 Ohm resistor, for switching TV to RGB mode, and also for Moosman amp), Ground (for Moosman amp), they all go to a SCART plug for my NES (that I am using from a cheap SNES RGB SCART cable that I ripped apart). Then I plug the SCART plug into my SCART socket on my 14" Sony TV.

For Composite Sync Ground, a wire comes out of my SCART plug, and goes to NES Ground (NOT to Moosman amp. ground, the amp. has a noisy ground).

For Green Ground, a wire comes out of my SCART plug, and goes to NES Ground (again NOT to Moosman amp. ground, the amp. has a noisy ground).

I am not grounding Red or Blue.

Picture is perfect, basically. No noise, no jailbars, whichever room I am in, or whether I connect it to my 29" Sony, or IN76 projector.

The only shielded cable I used so far was a double one for my 2 CPU sound channels.

It's my non-modded SNES and modded SNES JR that I have the picture problems with (S-Video, diagonal lines). My Sony PSX UK model 7500 and Pioneer LX60D give me a perfect S-Video picture (on NTSC and PAL respectively, since my PSX is chipped and I play exclusively NTSC USA games on it).

Can I just cut RGB Pins out of socket, so they arent then connected to my PCB?
I dont like to make stereo mod, so how I can sync video and audio, if I use some RGB to Component transcoder? I think then video have some lag, versus audio?

You cut the Composite PPU out by cutting the legs at the tops of the legs close to where the legs meet the PPU body. Use a Tamiya Modeller's Side Cutter or similar, like I did. That leaves a load of legs sticking out of the PCB. Now heat the rear of the PCB, at the bottom of the leg where the join is to the PCB, with a 2mm single oval faced bit with a little fresh solder on it, and a 50W iron (I use Antex TCS50 and this bit). Then grab hold of the top of the leg on the component side of the board, with pliers and pull gently. Legs will come out easily. Except the ones in a group that are all grounded together like the RGB etc. which take more attempts. Do not heat for more than about 10 seconds. If it doesn't come out, let it cool and then try again. Waggle the pliers if needed, when pulling.

Then use a 0.7mm drill (cheapest ones, pack of 10 on Ebay) in a Swivel Head Pin Vice and drill out the hole that gets filled in by the solder, where the leg used to be. Drill all 40 holes. Now you are ready to install the new PPU socket. Make sure to remember to insulate holes 14,15,16 (and any others like pin 21 if you are going to lift it from the PCB), and remember to cut short pins 14,15,16 on the bottom of the PPU socket and solder wires to each of them for the RGB output to the amp.

Why don't you like the stereo mod?

Regards,

Alistair G.

[Europemodder]

Why don't you like the stereo mod?

I downloaded NES Stereo mod sample music, but it doesnt feel so nice on my headphones. Hard to explain, but this is just my opinion.

Make sure to remember to insulate holes 14,15,16 (and any others like pin 21 if you are going to lift it from the PCB), and remember to cut short pins 14,15,16 on the bottom of the PPU socket and solder wires to each of them for the RGB output to the amp.

I will lift 21 from the PCB and use .1uF cap between 21 pin and Jrok Sync input. This can not be a bad idea  
But akaviolence needed a sync cleaner to get the pc10 to work with the Jrok.
I just get all needed parts to make Moosmann AMP, but maybe I still need to get LM1881, becauseI  like to use Jrok.
I got a little contradictory information...

[akaviolence]

Today I got an RGB modded top loader to work perfect with the ba6594af component encoder, same chip used in some snes consoles, this is awesome news for me since the Jrok is too expensive and too big.
Video

[Europemodder]

Hi,

This  BA6594AF + LM1881 + NCS2553 set looks perfect and its very small overall.
Is there any way to make clear schematic to me?
I mean like this,

[akaviolence]

I thought you wanted to stay away from surface mount chips?
Anyway, the circuit is posted on the sega-16 forum thread about the chip, here.

I plan to layout a pcb just for installing into to nes front and top loaders. It will have a socket for the rgb ppu and headers to insert into a socket where the composite ppu was.
Any interest?

[Europemodder]

My friend have skills to install  surface mount chips, so its not anymore problem.
If you can make layout with this 3 needed chip and other items,  It would really help me out.
And my console is AV Famicom from Japan. I use socket with RP2C03B.

[skips]

OK, got everything in BUT my PPU. It looks like it was my PPU and amp that fried. Good news is my JROK encoder is ok (yay!). Got everything all connected and am waiting for the new PPU to come in (comes in monday).

I am pretty sure it is my PPU thats bad that is. When you boot up the NES the screen is black and does not roll as if their was a sync issue. You can see faint outlines of things onscreen in mario 2. (trees, characters, and whatnot) if you get real close to the TV. Its as if you turned all the color dials down on your encoder. Ill swap the PPU out on monday and hopefully everything will come up. Has anyone seen this issue before?

I did discover the source of the interference from the first time around however. The Wei-ya encoders just suck, plain and simple. Avoid these encoders when doing the NES RGB mod. If you want an affordable  s-video and composite only encoder JROK sells his version 3 encoder for $50.

Lastly I was wondering how you guys went about removing the heatsinks from your PPU's? Since I might have a dead PPU to practice on I am thinking of trying it instead of cutting the case. I just didn't want to risk breaking my PPU the first time.

[Salamander]

Never heard of frying a PPU like that before, something you would consider selling broken?  You have a few options to remove the heatsinks of which the easiest is to take a pair of needlenose pliers and squeeze the fins together until it pops off the chip.  If you want to clean up the epoxy from there a hair dryer and the edge of a knife or razorblade can chip off the big chunks.  Don't go crazy with the heat so the chip gets nuclear you just want it hot enough to loosen the bond the epoxy has on it.  A magic eraser will remove the remaining residue to get your PPU nice and pretty (do the epoxy removal with the chip socketed outside the system).

[Live_Steam_Mad]

Lastly I was wondering how you guys went about removing the heatsinks from your PPU's? Since I might have a dead PPU to practice on I am thinking of trying it instead of cutting the case. I just didn't want to risk breaking my PPU the first time.

I used heat and a sharp craft knife (Tamiya Fine Craft Knife, 30 degree blade point with interchangeable blades). I used a 1.6KW hair dryer and it has a 2" x 1" diffuser on it and I set it to medium air flow and maximum heat and put a pair of old cotton pajamas on the kitchen floor and put the PPU onto the cloth and then blasted one end of the PPU with the hair dryer for 30 seconds, no more. The cloth of the pj's grips the legs of the PPU automagically and stops it moving. Then I tried gently pulling the heatsink with large pliers. After blasting both ends a few times with the hairdryer, the heatsink came off fairly easily. But then I wanted a clean chip (for aesthetic reasons LOL) so I could admire it for a while! So then came where I had to scrape the heatsink adhesive off the top of the PPU chip itself.

So then I pulled some cloth over the rest of the PPU to stop me getting burned (WOW it gets HOT maybe over 120C or so I imagine, it's nearly burning me through the cloth LOL, don't wanna risk any more than 30 seconds on the hairdryer unless I damage the PPU) and then scraped the black stuff with a Tamiya knife.

It's an Epoxy that is on the PPU between the chip and the PC10 heatsink, as supplied from Nintendo. When I tried to remove the adhesive off an RP2C03 with no heatsink, it was impossible to scrape off without heat. Epoxy melts or at least goes much softer with heat (at about 140C I think I remember)

Don't worry about digging into the ceramic too much, it's impossible to do so with the force you could create, the legs on the PPU will bend long before you could dig in with enough force, and the blade would be blunt long before then as well. I found this out for myself (after much scraping of the Epoxy off the chip) that it doesn't matter how sharp a craft knife you use on the left and right sections of the RP2C03B, and the sharp blade becomes blunt towards the front end of the blade after about 10 minutes of heavy scraping, and there's sometimes only so much you can remove using the hairdryer and knife.

My 1st RP2C03B that I used was a bitch to clean, the Epoxy just wouldn't all come off, so then I just started scraping at it with a fresh blade in my Tamiya Fine craft knife on a cutting board. I attacked the hell out of it. The ceramic started to look shiny or metallic like in places almost as if I had removed the top layer of ceramic and exposed something underneath!

But I also discovered that sometimes the only way to remove the remnants on there is to use P400 grade Silicon Carbide abrasive sheet (used dry). After much sanding the remains finally started to slowly come off. The shiny areas of the ceramic where I thought I had damaged the surface just went back to being purple matt again and the epoxy showed up really well by going matt black. Then I realised that you cannot damage the surface at all with the P400, even the gold line and plus sign. All went well and I got off all of the remains of the epoxy and then cleaned with White Spirit and it looks like new again. The surface is very smooth to the touch, as the ceramic is extremely hard and resists the P400 grit almost completely. It was a good enough surface to accept the thermal pad on the heatsinks that I bought, the heatsinks never came off when the PPU is upside down in the NES and was warm.

On another PPU, one side the Epoxy came off without too much effort, after only a couple of tries of the hairdryer, but the stuff on the other end of the chip was layed on thick and gave me quite a lot of grief and it took much scraping and goes with the hairdryer, quite annoying. But I got there in the end, and got all of it off so the chip looks way better now. I bent a few PPU pins but they are easily straightened again. Moral is don't press too hard or move forwards / backwards too forcefully when scraping LOL.

Later EDIT: I used a thick bed blanket the second time around on my next PPU  so that the legs didn't get bent hardly at all.

I show 3 pictures below showing the PPU 1) after it's scrape clean under heat 2) after I just attacked the heck out of it with the fresh sharp knife and 3) after it's had P400 Silicon Carbide on it and been cleaned up.

Also I had a thought that I clean every cart I buy with Isopropyl Alcohol on the contacts using cotton buds on plastic sticks, and I am plugging in old dirty chips into my nice clean new precision socket, so I thought that I should clean the legs of each PPU that I try. So I clean the insides of the legs with the same method and by putting the chip on a sheet of Aluminium whilst I am doing it, and then clean the outsides of the legs by placing the legs of the chip along the edge of the Alu. sheet so they don't get bent.

I chose to add my own heatsink to the PPU, since after playtesting for maybe 30 min's, the PPU without heatsink was rather hot, maybe a little under 60C, not burning my finger though but was very hot when I put my upper lip on it as a test (!). At least, a heatsink can't do any damage LOL.

Also I realised that the raised central hump that contains the die is NOT heatsinked at all !  It's only the 2 far left and right sides of the chip that had adhesive on that are heatsinked. How stupid. So the heatsink has very little surface area and is really touching in the wrong place. Doah.

Thus, I used 3 x smaller low profile replacement heat sinks, one mounted on the flat main die area in the middle, 2 either side of that. I used GPU RAM heatsinks that were suggested to me (these ones ;- http://tinyurl.com/3fbcx5l ) and they had a thermal adhesive pad backing.

The RP2C03B has a space either side of the raised central (die) section, each space is 18mm long x 15mm wide. The die containing central section is 14mm square and is raised up about 1mm above the left and right sections.  

The heatsinks I used are 6mm low profile Aluminium alloy heatsinks. In case anyone wants to buy them later on but can't find them when the Ebay link dies after 90 days, the description is "8 x GPU RAM VRM Heatsinks With Adhesive Thermal Tape" and "8 small heatsinks suitable for RAM, GPU's, games consoles, laptops, and other electronics to provide better cooling and reduce over-heating." "The heatsinks come with 3M adheisive thermal tape on the back, just peel and stick!" "The shape helps to quickly dissipate heat." "Made from aluminium alloy." "Each heatsink is approx 15x14mm and 6mm high."
"I use these on my ATI 5870's bare memory chips and they knock about 10C off at idle, and 20C at load!". These small heatsinks fit the RP2C03B just great.

There was an item code on the packet that showed it was from Deal Extreme ;-

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/aluminum-alloy-chipset-heatsinks-for-pc-memory-chips-8-hsk-set-15361

The adhesive doesn't look like any thermal compound I am aware of (I know what the grey thermal pads look like on the PS2 for example), instead it looks just like thin servo tape (like from my RC models hobby). I cleaned the chip with Isopropyl Alcohol and I peeled the paper off the adhesive pads and stuck the heatsinks on, I used 3 of them to completely cover the chip (just about).

The adhesive is just like on servo tape (black glossy and extremely tacky, not like on the thermal pads in the PS2) so watch out and don't press them on just place them on until you are happy, otherwise repositioning is almost impossible. When you press them on they stick down very tenaciously and you can lift up the whole PCB by pulling up one heatsink. So I don't think that they will come off in the NES.

I am still a little worried about the heat and it being upside down on the "wrong" side of the board, in an unventilated small plastic box that is the NES, but there's little that I can do about that. I ran the NES for many hours and checked for lockups. No problems so far.

Pictures below in the link, to show the heatsinks and how far below the expansion port they come to. I can't tell whether the middle heatsink (the raised one on top of the die) is pressing against the plastic of the NES casing or not as I can't see it. I was hoping that I could see though the expansion port blanking plate but when I removed the big rectanglular lump of plastic off the bottom of the NES where the expansion port was (you just press in the sides and pull and the clips of it come off) there was still a small plate of plastic covering the port that could not be removed without cutting it off! And I can't see beyond it well enough to see the PPU properly. With the 3 heatsinks in place on my RP2C03B the NES PCB does seem to sit properly in the casing and allow the screws to be screwed in properly so I'm fairly happy with it now.

Note in the pictures how I have separated the middle heatsink from the left and right one so as to allow air to circulate fully between them.

http://picasaweb.google.com/LiveSteamMad/RGBNESHeatsinks

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[skips]

Thanks for the help  Live_Steam_Mad and Salamander. Ill give those tips a go when i go to remove it. As for the PPU frying Salamander, I was not paying attention and soldered the 5v line on the amp to the wrong point. Everything I am using now is brand new including the NES except for the PPU so I am pretty sure its the PPU. I will know for sure on Monday when the new one comes in. Thanks again.

[Europemodder]

Is there any problem if I use just the original heatsink, wihout removing it?

[Salamander]

The combined height won't fit inside the AV Fami unless you either hack a chunk out of it or the case.

[skips]

Well new PPU works however it appears the new ultimarc amp I had gotten is faulty. Check the connections and everything is wired right yet only red shows. Works fine (but dim) without the amp. Since I lack the technical skill to make my own from a schematic is there anyone that knows where to get a decent amp or would make and sell me one?

[Salamander]

Post a pic of how your current setup looks?  I do have a spare THS7314 on an SOIP to DIP8 board that with some 75ohm resistors would amp your color lines.

[skips]

Here is my setup. Looks a little messy cause I have it out of the case for testing and have not cut anything to length yet. This is a new NES I had lying around that I did the mod to today just to make sure I had everything right. Here is how its all connected. I do not have the capacitor on pin 24 yet. Ill add that when I get everything else sorted. Right now the only color really displayed when everything is connected is red. Its as if the amp is not amplifying green and blue. You basically get a strong red and a super super weak green and blue.

• Pins 14,15,16, 17, and 21 are all lifted
• RGB is pulled off pins 14, 15, and 16 and run to the RGB pins on the AMP
• Sync is ran directly off pin 21 and runs to the sync cleaner (seen on the left). Power and ground for the sync cleaner is pulled off of the NES power regulator. The sync line runs out of the sync cleaner and straight to the encoder.
• The amplifier gets both its power and grounding next to the cartridge slot.
• The RGB out lines on the amplifier go out to the encoder.
• The encoder gets its video ground from the edge of the NES board. This is just temporary because I wanted to hook it up and test
• The encoder gets its power and power ground from the 5 volt regulator circuit I built. The 5 volt regulator circuit connect up in the RF box. The problem is the same with or without the homemade regulator circuit so I am pretty sure it is not causing the issue. Its just there cause the NES power regulator seemed to get getting real hot.

The problem i keep having with the amps may be with how I am connecting my ground. I had it right the first time I did this mod but thought the video noise I was getting was poor grounding. It wasn't, it was a crappy low quality encoder. I broke it trying to fix that issue and for the life of me cant get back to where I was in step one. Thank you for all the help and patience you have given me, I greatly appreciate it. I am starting to think I should have just dealt with the noise vs trying to mess with it.

[Salamander]

Alright so looking this over...

You must be sending +5v to the underside of the ultimarc board as the website suggests.  You could send that to pin 9 instead since you have desoldered the db-15 connector.  Are you positive no damage was done while desoldering/soldering to this board?  I would try sending RGB straight off the PPU into the JROK first to see if it is producing a correct looking (but dim) image.  If that's fine then it's got to be how the color lines were soldered to the amp probably on the output side.

Do you own a multimeter?  If so try to work backwards testing for continuity between where you desoldered those screw down output terminals and the surface mount chip on the board.  If you are really really stuck on this I wouldn't mind taking it on as a project.  You could keep the most expensive components with you (PPU, JROK) since those would not be necessary to get this working if that's an issue.

[skips]

Yup the power is going to the underside of the amp like the ultimarc website said. There have been some new developments with this however. I managed to figure out the grounding on the amplifier and low and behold video came right back up.  It was showing dim video when connected directly to the encoder before so I knew I had all that wired correctly, it was just a matter of figuring out the amp. I do own a multimeter, I couldn't imagine taking on a project like this without one. The original PPU is in fact dead like I thought but I had a second.  The Amp sustained some damage I am pretty sure so I will order another later. Not going to de-solder anything from it this time to rule out me damaging something.

I started off using the Jrok and got a good deal of interference no mater where I grounded it. This was on two different Jrok encoders so I know its not a faulty encoder. I took out my regulator circuit to make sure it was not that. Eventually I gave up and decided to try the crappy Weiya encoder again. Oddly enough interference seemed to be extremely low, in the acceptable range id say. There was that annoying red color crawl however from the first time I attempted the mod. I played with trying to fix the crawling for about two hours then ran across a post by Xian Xi over on the neo-geo forums mentioning that it was possible to get this encoder to run off 5v (it runs off 8-12v). He mentioned that you could solder to the 5v out line on the regulator on the encoder to get it going. I did this and BAM no more color crawl. The encoder went from being crappy to awesome. Its s-video seems on par with the JROK from what I can tell. Running off 12 volts like the manufacturer says to results in hot colors such as red and some yellows crawling despite no visible interference (I can notice it slightly on my consolized Neo-MV1F bored too). Colors also seemed to be on crack too, red and blue were much to bright and it required a lot of  tweaking with the RGB pots to get colors somewhat decent. Bypassing the regulator completely fixed this issue. Colors are no longer crawling and are not over saturated. Now I just have to reground the encoder and it should be good. Ill do that later tonight and let you know how it works out.  I am pretty sure the little bit of interference that is there is being caused by the amp and not the encoder (with the JROK too). The poor amp is probably on its last leg from all the times it was incorrectly connected and soldered/desoldered.

The only thing I do not like this time around is the jail bars are in your face noticeable on blacks such as the start of Mario 2. It wasn't quite this bad the first time I attempted this mod however the first time it was on a CPU 10 board. Both the CPU 7 and 8 boards I have seem to give really strong jail bars. I do not have a CPU 10 board to try it on anymore unfortunately. I am going to try putting 220uf capacitors on the RGB lines coming out of the amp to see if that obscures the jail bars a bit. Pins 17 and 21 are lifted on the 8 board and lowered on the 7 bored. It did not seem to make a difference like it did on the 10 board. Ill probably keep working with this encoder and save the JROK for another neo-geo board ill be consolizing. The neo-geo would benefit more from the component video anyway. I have not given up completely on this yet. Thank you for the offer though. I want to see if I can get this done well myself before I pass it onto someone else. I am learning a lot from this project and despite it having some frustrating parts has been an overall fun experience. If I cant get it to how I want it ill probably pass it off to another eventually. Paid to much for the PPU to not get a working NES with S-video.

[Live_Steam_Mad]

The only thing I do not like this time around is the jail bars are in your face noticeable on blacks such as the start of Mario 2. It wasn't quite this bad the first time I attempted this mod however the first time it was on a CPU 10 board. Both the CPU 7 and 8 boards I have seem to give really strong jail bars. I do not have a CPU 10 board to try it on anymore unfortunately. I am going to try putting 220uf capacitors on the RGB lines coming out of the amp to see if that obscures the jail bars a bit. Pins 17 and 21 are lifted on the 8 board and lowered on the 7 bored. It did not seem to make a difference like it did on the 10 board. Ill probably keep working with this encoder and save the JROK for another neo-geo board ill be consolizing. The neo-geo would benefit more from the component video anyway. I have not given up completely on this yet. Thank you for the offer though. I want to see if I can get this done well myself before I pass it onto someone else. I am learning a lot from this project and despite it having some frustrating parts has been an overall fun experience. If I cant get it to how I want it ill probably pass it off to another eventually. Paid to much for the PPU to not get a working NES with S-video.

Might I suggest you use the NES CPU 04 board like mine (all you have to do is find one with serial no. below 1 million) and then mod it like I have fully described, then use the same J S Technology RGB SCART to S-Video converter and Moosmann amp that I do. I have no caps on the RGB lines. I use the NES RF box to amp the C-Sync.

I have no jail bars visible on blacks, and no noise or patterns or diagonal lines or any other picture flaw, and the picture is sharp. It's the same with each RP2C03B PPU that I tried. Looks like I got the right revision of NES LOL. The only glitch I have is the 2 short vertical blue lines in SMB 2 NTSC USA version, at the very right hand edge of the screen, which Markus tells me is caused by the RP2C03B itself and doesn't happen on the C1 or Titler PPU.

Pity I can't get decent S-Video from my large SNES, or RGB and S-Video and C-Sync modded SNES 2 (mini / Jr) ...I have diagonal lines on S-Video from both SNES's... But the SNES 2 Composite is sharp and it's RGB is fair, if not quite as sharp as the Composite output... RGB from my large SNES is blurred...

Regards,

Alistair G.

[skips]

Ive been getting all my NES systems locally for 10-20 bucks a piece and have not run across a low serial number one yet. Would love to get one. I might have to order one off ebay or see if one of my friends that is not doing this mod will trade boards with me.  I managed to score a free PPU today from a local arcade that closed shop. They literally threw out a couple Playchoice 10 boards, one of which still had the PPU in it.  This means once I get this done the first time I will most likely do it a second time to perfect the process (I always do my mods in 2's, once to learn and twice to perfect).

As for the SNES I wonder if that is a PAL thing? I dislike the US SNES design so I got a super Famicom awhile ago and filed the cart port to fit US carts.  One of the first things I did with it was install s-video and audio left/right jacks. There are two things in this world I despise most with electronics, the proprietary multi video cables game consoles use and composite/RF video.  I did this to all my game systems. Anyway the S-video on it looks better than using the official Nintendo S-video cables via the multi-video port. All I did was solder lines from the multi-video port to the s-video connector. Chroma and Luma are both running through 22ouf capacitors before going out to the port. It looks great on my old TV and with 0 interference. Have you tried 220uf capacitors? Before I added them I had slight interference.

[Live_Steam_Mad]

As for the SNES I wonder if that is a PAL thing? I dislike the US SNES design so I got a super Famicom awhile ago and filed the cart port to fit US carts.  One of the first things I did with it was install s-video and audio left/right jacks. There are two things in this world I despise most with electronics, the proprietary multi video cables game consoles use and composite/RF video.  I did this to all my game systems. Anyway the S-video on it looks better than using the official Nintendo S-video cables via the multi-video port. All I did was solder lines from the multi-video port to the s-video connector. Chroma and Luma are both running through 22ouf capacitors before going out to the port. It looks great on my old TV and with 0 interference. Have you tried 220uf capacitors?

Both my large SNES (SNS-CPU-RGB-01) and my SNES 2 (SNN-CPU-01) are NTSC USA models. I play only NTSC USA games on it. There are no 220uF caps in my DIY S-Video cable, I didn't know S-Video needed them. I'll try them and see what happens!

I have detailed my diagonal lines issue with my SNES's here ;- http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?126959-SNES-Jr-S-Video

Regards,

Alistair G.

[skips]

I do not think it actually needs them it was just something I tried that seemed to improve the picture quality a good deal.

[Live_Steam_Mad]

Well I tried adding a 220uF cap on each of the Luminance and Chrominance (7,8 of MultiAV into S-Video bare plug) and it made bog all difference. S-Video from both SNES's is still diagonally totally line-tastic on yellows and blues on the 29" TV (I'll test on the IN76 pj later on). This sucks big time  

I know it's not the TV or pj since both give me perfect pictures on the Pioneer LX60D in PAL 50Hz, my chipped UK PS1 and my chipped UK PS2 when playing NTSC USA games at 60Hz, via S-Video. If anyone has any contructive suggestions I'm be happy to hear from them.

Hey hang on a minute, I wonder if it's the color encoding... just remembered that my RGB SCART to S-Video converter is PAL encoded color output only, at both 50Hz and 60Hz. I can't remember what the PS1 and PS2 give out when on S-Video. If they are all PAL encoding and I only get lines on the 2 SNES's, then it maybe be NTSC color encoded S-Video that my TV and pj don't like. I'll test this and report back.

Regards,

Alistair G.

 

[skips]

I think I have a US SNES sitting around somewhere. If I get time this weekend Ill drill some holes in the case and run  an S-video port to the points on the AV connector and see how it goes. I wouldn't think there would be much of a difference between it and a super Famicom though. Ill do it both with caps and without caps and see how it goes.

[Live_Steam_Mad]

I think I have a US SNES sitting around somewhere. If I get time this weekend Ill drill some holes in the case and run  an S-video port to the points on the AV connector and see how it goes. I wouldn't think there would be much of a difference between it and a super Famicom though. Ill do it both with caps and without caps and see how it goes.

Thanks Skips. I just tested ;-

1) Composite @ 50Hz 625 lines w/ PAL 4.43MHz
2) Composite @60Hz 525 lines w/ NTSC 3.58MHz
3) Composite @60Hz 525 lines w/ PAL 4.43MHz
4) S-Video @ 50Hz 625 lines w/ PAL 4.43MHz
5) S-Video @60Hz 525 lines w/ NTSC 3.58MHz
6) S-Video @60Hz 525 lines w/ PAL 4.43MHz
7) RGB SCART via adapter block w/separate sync (C-Video) @ 50Hz 625 lines
8 ) RGB SCART via adapter block w/separate sync (C-Video) @60Hz 525 lines
9) Component (sync on green) @ 50Hz 625 lines
10) Component (sync on green) @60Hz 525 lines

...all from my Pioneer LX60D DVD / HDD recorder, direct into my IN76 projector, and NONE of them gave me any diagonal lines. S-Video was perfectly line free. I'll have a look at both PS1 and PS2 next.

UPDATE: My chipped FAT UK model SCPH-30003 R PS2 has a perfectly diagonal line free picture via S-Video into my IN76 pj, with the genuine Sony S-Video PS3 cable, when playing USA 60Hz games, and always outputs with PAL encoding @ 4.43MHz but with 525 lines, @60Hz interlaced.

These games had a perfect picture in S-Video on my pj ;-

Burnout NTSC USA @60Hz
Colin McRae Rally 3 NTSC USA @60Hz
Colin McRae Rally 3 UK PAL @50Hz
Gran Turismo 3 NTSC USA @60Hz
Gran Turismo 4 NTSC USA @60Hz
Gran Turismo Concept UK PAL @50Hz
MotorStorm Arctic Edge NTSC USA @60Hz
Need For Speed Carbon UK PAL @50Hz
Network Startup Disc
OutRun (Remake) NTSC Japan @60Hz - but slight banding on the large blue sky
Pro Rally UK PAL @50Hz
Sega Rally 2 (2006) NTSC Japan @60Hz
Sega Rally Championship NTSC Japan @60Hz
Tomb Raider Anniversary UK PAL @50Hz widescreen
Tomb Raider Legend NTSC USA @60Hz widescreen

However in Colin McRae Rally 04 and 05, both 50Hz versions, in PAL, there were herringbone patterns everywhere, but the really wierd thing was when I tried Colin McRae Rally 03 in 50Hz in PAL, and GT Concept in 50Hz in PAL, and Need For Speed Carbon in 50Hz in PAL, there was a perfect picture! In Richard Burns Rally in 50Hz in PAL there was a clear screen (intro graphics) BUT full screen dither pattern at all times during the game!! All this played from a HDD via HDLoader v0.8c, and via S-Video. I tested them all twice to make sure. Need to check some more games... and my PS1...

UPDATE: Tried my PS1 in S-Video in nearly all my games, I get a perfect picture via S-Video on my pj at all times, when it's outputting 625 lines @50Hz in PAL 4.43MHz, or when it's outputting 525 lines @60Hz with NTSC color encoding at 3.58MHz.

OK this is weird... when I try my chipped PS1 UK model 7500 with the cheap 3rd party PSX RGB SCART cable that I have, I can only get the boot rom screen (Sony / PS logo) to appear on my pj (in 625 lines / 50Hz), I get NO in game picture at all no matter what game I try with it, either from my PAL PS1 games or my NTSC USA PS1 games. No matter where I get C-Video (for sync) from. Any idea what the heck is going on?

UPDATE: I think there are maybe 2 explanations for this... either my pj doesn't like the RGB from my PSX (even though it works perfectly with my Slim or Fat PS2 (with PS2 games) and Pioneer LX60D in RGB mode at 525 lines @60Hz or 625 lines @50Hz), or my PS1 mod chip is causing some problem.

At first I thought it was because maybe the PSX changes to Composite Sync when in RGB mode, but then again it hasn't got any "mode", it's giving out RGB ALL the time, same as the PS2 Slim and Fat, (except when PS2 is in Component), and PSX is giving out Composite Video at all times (I checked) in 576i or 480i, with all my PS1 PAL or NTSC USA games, so it can't be that causing it.

BTW, this made me realise that maybe the reason that I can't get a picture out of my RGB NES on my IN76 pj is because maybe my pj can't handle C-Sync in RGB mode, it maybe only accepts C-Video as sync in RGB, hence the reason for no picture (I have to use the RGB SCART to S-Video converter instead), it's maybe because the RGB PPU doesn't have C-Video anymore, only C-Sync instead.

The same thing does NOT happen on my Fat chipped PS2 UK model SCPH 30003 R with my PS2 games, I get an RGB SCART picture on all my PS2 games (either NTSC USA ones or PAL UK ones). Same with my Slim non-chipped PS2.

I can't test whether there is no picture from either my Slim unchipped PS2 or my Fat mod chipped PS2 in RGB with my PS1 NTSC games, since the Slim won't let me play NTSC USA games (because it's not chipped) even when softmodded to play PS2 backups via ESR patch (since I don't think you can ESR patch PS1 games?!), and the Fat PS2 will only let me read PS1 discs when I disable the mod chip, which then won't let me read games from another region (since it then acts like an unchipped PS2!). And I can't put PS1 games onto USB stick and try them in the Slim like I can do with PS2 games on the Slim, and I can't put PS1 games onto the HDD of the Fat PS2 since it uses the PS1 CPU for HDD access when you are in PS2 mode!

In addition I get NO picture from my pj when using the Fat chipped PS2 or Slim unchipped UK PS2 model SCPH-70003 in RGB mode when using PAL original PS1 discs, in either Component or RGB, when the game starts. I only get a picture in the boot screen logo and sometimes in a video before the game. However I get a Composite Video picture at all times with PAL PS1 discs in either my Fat or Slim PS2's. So PS2 is acting like my PS1 in this case. But of course I get a picture using PS2 games in Component and RGB.

I notice that the RGB picture from both PS1 and PS2 Phat is noticeably sharper than the S-Video picture (which is already pretty sharp).

Just ordered an original genuine Sony PS3 Component cable (compatible with PS2) from Amazon USA (it was 1/2 the price of the UK one) and will see how I get on with that, looking to hopefully get the sharpness of RGB that I get on the Fat PS2, but in Component on my PS2's.

UPDATE: Noticed that my chipped PS2 cannot be set to Component video out, only RGB (screen does not go green or alter at all when I change it to Component in the System Configuration menu), maybe because of the mod chip. BUT my UK unchipped Slim PS2 SCPH-70003 will freely change between RGB and Component, and my pj accepts Component from it very nicely.

RGB SCART from my PS2 Slim, taking C-Video as sync half way along the cable from the C-Video socket on the RGB cable, looks nearly perfect in 625 lines @50Hz with only sometimes faint diagonal lines on some colors, and totally perfect 525 lines @60Hz, and no noise or wavy lines , using the same cheap 3rd party RGB cable as I used with PS2 Fat. Not quite as sharp as the PS2 Fat though on RGB, about the same sharpness as S-Video from the PS2 Fat.

Component from my Slim is pretty nice in 625 lines @50Hz with only very faint diagonal lines on certain colors, but at 525 lines @60Hz has some problems with quite a bit stronger diagonal lines on some colors, but there is no noise or wavy lines, again using the same cheap 3rd party RGB cable as I used with PS2 Fat. However if I remove the C-Video from the socket half way along the RGB cable (RGB cable becomes Component in Component video mode on the PS2) then the 625 lines @ 50Hz picture's faint diagonal lines become noticeably more pronounced, and the 525 lines @ 60Hz picture becomes a  diagonal line tastic picture, not good, even though my Pioneer LX60D gives me a perfect picture in Component on this pj using the same cables when in 525 lines @60Hz. Again this Slim via Component is not quite as sharp as the PS2 Fat was though on RGB, about the same sharpness as S-Video from the PS2 Fat.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[Salamander]

Could be a jailbars fix?

http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=4713.msg117174#msg117174

Apparently works with Famicom composite so I wonder if PPU shielding could be applied to Playchoice PPUs with similar results?

[Live_Steam_Mad]

Wow, finally solved the stupid diagonal lines and wavy vague lines problem on my PS1 / PS2 in RGB, it wasn't the cable, it was when I take Composite Video (pj needs C-Video to sync, i.e. separate sync) from a SCART adapter block that I have to use to get the signal into the projector. When I use the separate Composite Video from half way along the PlayStation RGB cable itself, I finally have a perfect RGB picture on the PSX!!

UPDATE: Oh dear, I can't use that above technique with the genuine Sony Component PS3 cable used as RGB cable since there is no Composite Video to tap off for Sync.

Now if only I could solve the SNES problem and all my consoles would be perfect LOL.

Regards,

ARG

[skips]

Well I got it all back together and working. Its much better than the first time I did it. i will just live with the jailbars, its still leaps and bounds better than composite. I will try to get a CPU 4 board for my last PPU. Maybe that will fair better jailbar wise. Thank you all for helping with this.