nfg.forums

   Hi !

I am doing research on DIY PCB manufacturing. I hope that after some time it will come to a point where I can produce them in small volumes and reasonably good quality. The proposed unit is intended to allow connecting PC PS/2 keyboard and mouse to X68000. Please give me your thoughts and suggestions.

Keep the scene alive,
Eidis

hey I tried emailing you, but didn't get a response, do you have any schematics or code for this?  I can definitely build my own and am interested in doing so!

 Hi!

The main point of this project for me is to support the scene while at the same time learn new things and earn a little bit of money so I'm afraid that this will be kept as a closed project. For now there is no estimated time of availability.

Eidis

 Hi Guys !

Would you rather prefer an adapter or custom made Logitech keyboard or mouse ? Please give me your thoughts.

Eidis

 Hi Guys !

Just a small update on the project. The schematics and microcode for both adapters have been obtained. I decided to make it as an adapter in a small box with the following dimensions:

a = 46mm/1.81" b = 31mm/1.22" c = 16mm/0.63"

http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-C.jpg (http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-C.jpg)
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-J.jpg (http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-J.jpg)
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-N.jpg (http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-N.jpg)
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-R.jpg (http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-R.jpg)

I think that black color would be best suited for this adapter. The final product will have an integrated  PS/2 socket and a 15cm cable with appropriate connector going to the X68000.

Any thoughts and suggestions are highly welcome.

Eidis

I agree on the black box for the converter.  it matches most of the units.  do you have any idea when this will be available?

 Hi !

The adapter could be ready somewhere in February, depending on how much free cash I will have on my hands. Right now there are plans for separate keyboard and mouse converters but if time and knowledge permits, I will integrate them both into one. It is coming, just not as fast as expected ;)

Eidis

P.S. Did you succeed in connecting SCSI hard drive to your X68000 ?

this would be nice! I would buy one of these if I dont find a real keyboard in time.

Quote from: eidis on December 19, 2011, 09:32:03 PM
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-C.jpg (http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-C.jpg)
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-J.jpg (http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-J.jpg)
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-N.jpg (http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-N.jpg)
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-R.jpg (http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-R.jpg)

None of these images are loading for me.

Also, if you're going to be making these, you should post them elsewhere. Places like Shmups Forum or the Digital Press board. See if you can get anyone on the Japanese side interested too. Hell, sell the first batch on eBay.

There has to be some demand for these things because getting an X68000 by itself isn't too hard - it's getting the essential peripherals that's another story. That and the original mouse and keyboard aren't of the greatest quality.

You could make a tiny side-business out of this. You could come up with drop-in replacement PCBs for certain popular control pads that give J-PC compatibility, tiny boards that would serve as easy-to-make VGA-to-JRGB-15 adaptors, and maybe even clone the XSIMMVI (an easier task then you think, there's like one TTL chip on the thing).

Quote from: papa_november on January 16, 2012, 11:39:03 AM
You could make a tiny side-business out of this. You could come up with drop-in replacement PCBs for certain popular control pads that give J-PC compatibility, tiny boards that would serve as easy-to-make VGA-to-JRGB-15 adaptors, and maybe even clone the XSIMMVI (an easier task then you think, there's like one TTL chip on the thing).

Seconded. I'm highly considering picking up an X68k this year and being able to use a PC keyboard and mouse would make it even better. I can't seem to find X68k keyboards by themselves for under 9000 yen so having an adapter would be great!

For those electronics wizards out there, here is the schematic.

(http://www.tsp.ne.jp/~sawada/mago/img/sch68at.gif)

Google translate is your friend :D

http://www.tsp.ne.jp/~sawada/mago/c_gka68at.htm (http://www.tsp.ne.jp/~sawada/mago/c_gka68at.htm)

OP, any word on some custom PCBs for this?

 I'm out of a job so the project is halted for an unknown time.

Eidis

Quote from: eidis on January 28, 2012, 03:09:21 AM
I'm out of a job so the project is halted for an unknown time.

Eidis

Ahh, sorry to hear that.  I may try and make my own based on the schematics on that Japanese page, but if you decide to make some custom boards someday, that'd be sweet.

Hi,

Ok so, here is my ps2 to x68k keyboard converter. I've quickly designed it while studying the MFP inside the IO board. Unlike the known one, it use an atmega32 from atmel, but with a bits of modifications, it should work with any kind of avr that support uart and external interrupts. (I've also test it with an atmega644p).

I provide it with full source code, nicely commented for those who are interested, and ready to be build with avr-gcc and avr-libc under linux  (I don't really know what tools is available under windows for avr development, I've heard about a "winavr"...)

(http://i.imgur.com/PILv2.png) (http://imgur.com/PILv2)

Source code here (http://iria.dark-byte.net/x68kbd-src-1.0.zip)


Sorry, I don't provide a PCB yet, I would like to do some reworking on it first (using a smaller mcu, adding keyboard leds handling and key repeat/delay time, mouse, ...)

Oh also, here is a note about the keyboard port : I don't know why, but all the mini din7 keyboard pinouts informations I have found on japanese sites are all wrong ! The "Remote Signal" and "Ground" are inverted. 
Here is the correct one : (Traced myself from the IO board. View is from front of the x68000, the female connector)
(http://i.imgur.com/erxyq.png) (http://imgur.com/erxyq)

Signal description :
- KBD_TX : Connected to MFP usart transmitter. Used by host to send command to keyboard (leds on/off, key repeat/delay, keyboard/mouse turn, ...)
- KBD_RX : Connected to MFP usart receiver. Used by the keyboard to send its keystroke to host.
- KBD_READY : Connected to MFP signal #RR, this is just an information signal asserted when MFP usart receiver is full. (like too much data from keyboard)
- KBD_MS_DATA : Mouse Data from keyboard. Connected to SCC channel B, shared with the mouse connector. (Yes, it seems some keyboard can attach a mouse. Seems configured as 4800bps,8N1. must study more)
- KBD_RS : Remote Signal (must study)
-+5Vsb : +5v stand by from psu. Keyboard seems to be always powered (some kind of remote wake up ?)
-Gnd : Ground.


That's all ! Have fun !  :)

I ordered all the parts to try and build one of these adapters.  If it works, I'll look into getting some custom PCBs made up for it and make a cheap kit.  I also ordered in a Japanese PS/2 keyboard, just in case it doesnt work with a US PS/2 keyboard.  

For now I used the design as shown on that Japanese site, though in retrospect, lydux's design looks a little simpler :P

Total cost for parts is under $10 an adapter.  Custom PCBs should be producable for a few bucks a piece.

Also lydux... I thought I read somewhere that the remote signal was used for some sort of wake up command to turn the computer on... is that possibly what that line is used for?

I attempted to build one of these adapters last night.  It does not seem to work as of yet.  It may be that they only work with Japanese PS/2 keyboards and not US ones.  I dont have a Japanese PS/2 keyboard to test with, only a US one.  once the JPN keyboard I ordered comes in I'll check this unit again.

Note: I hadn't installed the PIC chip yet.

(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac253/bmcdanold/x68k/AdapterX68k.jpg)

It should work with any PS/2 keyboard. Keystrokes codes for japanese and other country are all the same (JP keyboard just add some key like romanji switch with an associated keystroke, and of course not used by other one).
Remember that the keystroke is hardware side. While the character it will output is software side and generally up to the operating system.
For example, the key code for the letter "Q" on a qwerty keyboard will be the same as the key code for letter "A" on an azerty one.

Please first check for correct power supply on keyboard and pic without the keyboard and pic inserted.
Then, plug the keyboard. When powered on, it should perform what we call a "BAT" (Basic Assurance Test) by flashing the 3 leds at same time for about an half second.
This is the first test to do when building such adapter.

I've checked the power supply and ground lines at the pic pins and at the PS/2 keyboard port.  Evertyhing that's supposed to be 5v is 5v and everything that is supposed to be ground is ground.  When I plug the keyboard in, it does flash the 3 LEDs like you said.  Maybe there is an issue with the PIC program.

The schematic specified a PIC16C84/F84  I have a PIC16F84A  I tried to reassemble the code for an F84A, but it doesnt seem to have made a difference.  This is the first time I've ever dealt with PIC programming before.

 Blue BMW,

Did you use a 10Mhz PIC for your project ?

Eidis

Quote from: eidis on March 12, 2012, 02:49:21 AM
Blue BMW,

Did you use a 10Mhz PIC for your project ?

Eidis

Ahh, I wonder if thats the issue.  I beleive this is a 20mhz PIC.  Isnt the clock set by the crystal though?

I absolutly don't know PIC family.
As far as I know, 16C84 is up to 10mhz while 16F84A is 20Mhz. It should work like any cpu/mcu, this is a maximum supported frequency.
So, a 9.8304Mhz crystal should be ok for both PIC.

On AVR family, you need to configure the clock before use (internal/external, crystal/oscillator, and frequency range). But I can't tell about PIC.

Turns out my programmer was not writing correctly.  It cant write PIC chips on only USB (5v) power, and the 12.5v adapter part of the programmer doesnt seem to work.  So I picked up another PIC programmer board and tried it out...

(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac253/bmcdanold/x68k/Adapter3.jpg)

(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac253/bmcdanold/x68k/Adapter2.jpg)



So, as the OP asked, is there interest in some mass produced custom PCBs for these, either as a build it yourself or prebuilt kit?

 I see you are using Mr.M Sawada's design. I think that X68KEY2 is more simple and requires less parts. Check it out here:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=&media=x68000:x68key2_1.jpg (http://gamesx.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=&media=x68000:x68key2_1.jpg)
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_keyboard (http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_keyboard)

Eidis

Eidis ! The X68KEY2 is an x68000 keyboard to PS2 converter !  :)

I'm currently working on something and have ordered some components for this project 2 days ago.
By the same time, I bought a cheaper and smaller mcu because I want to rework my keyboard converter (the one I've posted were just a prototype, it's huge but I still use it). The next one will be largely easier to build, and I will provide pcb this time.

Just want to notice it.  ;)

 Thank you Lydux for the heads up. x68key2 entries have been removed to avoid further confusion. While we are at it, the following web page might be of interest to you ;)

http://kum.dyndns.org/works/mouse/index.html (http://kum.dyndns.org/works/mouse/index.html)

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

P.S. You wouldn't happen to be secretly developing a X68000 SOC ?

I will agree that the design I used (Mr Sawada's)  while function is a little heavy on the parts.  If lydux comes up with a much more efficient solution, that would be excellent.  If people want boards made up for the Sawada design, let me know.

Also, I  tried reprogramming the 20mhz PIC I had, and it also worked just fine when programmed properly.

Quote from: eidis on May 22, 2012, 05:33:12 AM
Thank you Lydux for the heads up. x68key2 entries have been removed to avoid further confusion. While we are at it, the following web page might be of interest to you ;)

http://kum.dyndns.org/works/mouse/index.html (http://kum.dyndns.org/works/mouse/index.html)

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

P.S. You wouldn't happen to be secretly developing a X68000 SOC ?

Thank for the link, I will take a look later. The simple mouse converter project is still on my list.


PS : Got a dream Eidis ?  I often do the same...  :D
I can't do this actually : lacks of skills, time and... outside x68000 !
But I can say I'm on something related to the x68k yes. And I'm not alone this time !  ;)

now if only someone could craft an X1 keyboard adaptor! lol

Did this ever materialize?  I need a keyboard and would love to buy a DIY kit for one of these or premade board.

 Hi Segasonicfan !

Here you go.

If you don't have a keyboard
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_keyboard (http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_keyboard)

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

Somebody did a run of boards for this at some point, though I'm not certain of who. I know the adaptor that was built for me was on a very nice, premade board. You might check with BlueBMW and see if he can recommend someone to contact.

I got some premade boards from a guy on neo-geo forums.  Not sure how many he made but they do make assembly a lot easier than a generic project board.

Quote from: BlueBMW on July 15, 2014, 02:03:54 AM
I got some premade boards from a guy on neo-geo forums.  Not sure how many he made but they do make assembly a lot easier than a generic project board.

I'd be interested in one.  Or any DIY kit or anything really.  Does anyone know someone who sells them?

-Segasonicfan

Anything identical concerning PS/2 mouse? :)

 Hi Neshek !

Certainly! More info here:

PS/2 Mouse Adapter
http://kum.dyndns.org/works/mouse/index.html (http://kum.dyndns.org/works/mouse/index.html)

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

Hi eidis.
I don't good at hardware,but can we make USB to 68 board?
In japan , USB keyboard and mouse converter is sell by a group,but it is expensive.
(Each converter prices $100!) So I can't get yet.

 A24Tanabe San,

Unfortunately my hardware knowledge is very limited. The adapter which is covered in this page was invented by Mr. M.Sawada long time ago and he deserves all credit for it. It is not very difficult to build it and full info can be found in the following links.

ここは m.sawada の個人的な趣味的ウェブサイトです。
http://www.tsp.ne.jp/~sawada/mago/index.html (http://www.tsp.ne.jp/~sawada/mago/index.html)

If you don't have a keyboard
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_keyboard (http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_keyboard)

The main components are very cheap and can be purchased here:

PIC + E-Eprom programmer for PIC16F84 and 24xxx eeproms
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIC-E-Eprom-programmer-for-PIC16F84-and-24xxx-eeproms-/280601526138?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4155277f7a (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIC-E-Eprom-programmer-for-PIC16F84-and-24xxx-eeproms-/280601526138?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4155277f7a)

1PCS IC MICROCHIP DIP-18 PIC16F84A-20/P
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251062410589?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/251062410589?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

The only drawback is that it requires a PS2 keyboard. Maybe Lydux can comment on the USB adapter ?

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

These x68k <-> USB keyboards converters are liars... Most USB keyboards are able to talk PS2 protocols nativelly. So these converters just output a female USB plug instead of the mini DIN 6 (PS2) which is a good idea in fact ! USB plugs are cheaper, and every keyboards are USB nowadays anyway.

USB to PS2 wiring :


      USB                PS2
  GND   (black) <===> GND (3)
  Data+ (green) <===> Clock (5)
  Data- (white) <===> Data (1)
  +5v     (red) <===> +5v (4)


I've personnally built a single chip x68k keyboard converter using an attiny45 in SOP8 package (about 5mm x 5mm IC). It's so small that it can fit directly inside the keyboard (a miniature one for instance), and I do have changed the USB male plug to a mini DIN 7 for the x68k (only 4 wires are needed on the x68k side, so the coord is still the same). Less than $5 solution !

I'll try to put some pictures.

I also would like to put the source code and microcode, but I need your help guys : I can't really determine of an ideal key mapping... So, I leave this to you and listening ! :)

Quote from: lydux on July 29, 2014, 02:11:29 AM
These x68k <-> USB keyboards converters are liars... Most USB keyboards are able to talk PS2 protocols nativelly. So these converters just output a female USB plug instead of the mini DIN 6 (PS2) which is a good idea in fact ! USB plugs are cheaper, and every keyboards are USB nowadays anyway.

USB to PS2 wiring :

Code Select Expand


      USB                PS2
  GND   (black) <===> GND (3)
  Data+ (green) <===> Clock (5)
  Data- (white) <===> Data (1)
  +5v     (red) <===> +5v (4)


I've personnally built a single chip x68k keyboard converter using an attiny45 in SOP8 package (about 5mm x 5mm IC). It's so small that it can fit directly inside the keyboard (a miniature one for instance), and I do have changed the USB male plug to a mini DIN 7 for the x68k (only 4 wires are needed on the x68k side, so the coord is still the same). Less than $5 solution !

I'll try to put some pictures.

I also would like to put the source code and microcode, but I need your help guys : I can't really determine of an ideal key mapping... So, I leave this to you and listening ! :)

Hi,

That is a great solution for DIY guys. I would love to have this solution for myself - I do have X68000 keyboards, but I love playing with the possibilities and help friends that do not have other options.

But the box type converter cannot be ruled out.

There are people that are not able or do not want to get their hands dirty (DIY). These people need the little box.
I still don't understand why there is not one permanent sale for these little boxes somewhere (like ebay), at reasonable prices.

don't know if it is possible but what I would like to see is a small port changer that plugs into the keyboard and mouse ports, the problem I have always had with those types of connectors is the pins getting bent. It would be nice to do a small adapter that is unobtrusive enough to be left in all the time that converts to say usb or some custom connector that does not require pins.

Any news on this project? I would need at least PS/2 converter for keyboard and I'm not handy enough to make one for myself.

I am searching for an Adapter too. Is there a way to get one ?

Ok no one to sell an adapter so i will try to rebuild one.

I choose the one from lydux with the ATMega - but where can i get the Firmware ready to Burn in the ATMega.
I don´t know how to compile software.
Is there a link to get the ready to use Firmware ?

I suposse you already have the source, if not, check the X68000 file archive: PS2 to X68000 keyboard (https://nfggames.com/x68000/Schematics/PS2%20to%20X68000%20keyboard%20adapters/PS2%20to%20X68000%20keyboard%20converter%20by%20Lydux/)

Then follow a guide like this (http://blog.podkalicki.com/how-to-compile-and-burn-the-code-to-avr-chip-on-linuxmacosxwindows/). Seems easy to follow :)

Maybe anyone still has the right binary ready to program....

So i soldered the ATMega on a PCB, but i can´t meassure anything on the Oscillator ?
I got the source Compiled and a friend compiled it too - now i have two different type of Hex files ?
And nothing works.
I am using a TL866 to programm the ATMega32 - how must i set the fuses and lockbit ?

I managed it to programm the ATMega with an USBASP - but nothing works.
Can anybody confirm that the ATMega Version will work ?

And what about the KBD_RX ? Isnt that used in this schematic ?

I'd be more interested in a x68k to usb adapter, these keyboards are great! full mechanical with alps switches.

I would be happy to get one to work...

Could anyone tell me how to set the Lo and Hi Fuses for the ATMega32A ?

Hi Jehuty,

There are some online tools for configuring AVR fuse bits easily, like this one: http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/ (http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/)

In your case, you need the standard configuration, except that you want to use a high speed (8.0+ MHz) external crystal.

I am not familiar with this series of AVR micro controllers, but these values should work: Lo=0xCE, Hi=0x99.
This is for a high speed external crystal, with a startup time of 258 clocks + 4ms.
If it doesn't work, try to get a clock setting with a higher startup time.

Hope it helps.

Thakns for the Reply, but it did not work.  :-\

Quote from: BlueBMW on July 15, 2014, 02:03:54 AM
I got some premade boards from a guy on neo-geo forums.  Not sure how many he made but they do make assembly a lot easier than a generic project board.

Sorry for the necroposting... do you have the username of that user? I've been looking for the post or info about it, on the Neo-Geo forums, without luck.

Thanks in advance :)